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Sountracker missing link...
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:08 am
by Fraggie
Hello there,
While fixing up a quick Sountracker plugin for XMPlay (Windows), I found myself very confused with the "M.K." id. Could anyone here explain in what circumstances was this mark added?
Soundtracker 2.2 (by Michael Kleps aka Unkown/DOC) doesn't support 31 samples and doesn't put the "M.K.". SoundTracker 2.3 (by Mnemotron) supports 31 samples and puts the id. Now why would Mnemotron put "M.K." initials when extending the format to 31 samples?
Furthermore in ST2.2's scroller we can read: "now the d.o.c news ! 1. the next soundtracker is finished ( 31 instruments ) , but only for internal use !!" while ST2.3' doc states that "This Soundtracker is based on the MasterSoundtracker V1.0 by TIP/PROPHETS and mainly on Soundtracker V2.2 by Unknown/D.O.C" and that "Modifications by D.O.C: (...) Extension to 31 Instruments".
As you see there is a link missing between ST2.2 and ST2.3... Does this mean that there is another Sountracker 2.2 that supports 31 samples and puts "M.K."? Or maybe ST2.3 was made by Unknown who then gave the sources away to Mnemotron? Why would he? And why Mnemotron hadn't changed it for example to his initials, if he was the one to release this 31 sample milestone?
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:38 am
by XtC
Ey up!
I don't know the answer but
here is a brief overview.
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:20 am
by Fraggie
Thanks, but this won't help me much. The list is full of errors.
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:55 am
by BuZz
From what I remember unknown of DOC did the first version supporting 31 instruments ? Are you sure ? You can also find various references to this around the net.
Please send in your corrections for that page.
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:58 am
by BuZz
If you read the docs for 2.3 it refers to the 31 instrument update being made by unknown/doc.
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:35 pm
by Fraggie
I'm certain that Unknown has done the 31 sample stuff (evidence: scroller, docs and the initials), but the question is in which version has he done that.
It looks like Soundtracker 2.2 was the last one from Unknown, but it doesn't handle 31 samples (only announces it in the scroller). Next Sountracker release is supposed to be Soundtracker 2.3 by Mnemotron, which saves 31 samples. Docs for this release say that it's based on Sountracker 2.2. So, Mnemotron must have got the (unreleased ?) enhanced Soundtracker 2.2 (mentioned in the scroller as the tracker "for internal use" by D.O.C.).
So there must be two ST 2.2 versions. But I can't prove this as I can't find this "internal" version anywhere. Now, the one who wrote the Tracker History says his Soundtracker 2.2 handles 31 samples. Maybe that's the one I'm looking for?
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:44 pm
by BuZz
According to the docs, soudntracker 2.3 has changes from unknown and mnemotron. I can only assume that either unknown gave him some newer sources to mnemotron with the additional stuff (Or perhaps they even worked on it together a little?)
Code: Select all
Soundtracker V2.3 - A Quick Clarification.
------------------------------------------
Update : April 1989.
Update done by : MnemoTroN.
Instructions : Tracer and Unknown of D.O.C / Based on J.C.-Instructions
MnemoTroN.
Modifications by D.O.C:
-----------------------
A sample sort function
Corrected 'DisplayPattern' routine
Corrected preset-editor
Improved record function
Extended keymap (Sonix style)
Pattern play function
Delete Song function in the dos menu
Improved ANALYZER
Pattern changing during play
Pattern break command
Position jump command
Sample zero function
New playroutine for use in demos/intros/games
Improved graphics (colors,styling,font)
Nice scrolling
Animated mousepointer
Directory Sort function
New Colors for the Analyzer
Extension to 31 Instruments
Modifications by MnemoTroN:
---------------------------
Scroll-Line removed
Animated Mousepointer removed
Extended DOS-Window
Key-Help-Page
Nice 'Sure?'-Requester
Reinsertion of Length-,Repeat- and RepLen-Gadgets
Lowpass-Filter is switched off
Load Module
Save Sample
Format Disk
Clear Song
and some small details that must not be mentioned here
Soundtracker 2.2 / 2.3
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:17 pm
by zeg
Unknown have given the sources to Mnemotron.
Unknown have added the 0-31 sample system in soundtracker 2.2 (M.K. = Michael Kleps)
Well, Mnemotron made the updates and spread the new Soundtracker 2.3 with-out the permission of Unknown. He was not amused about it. But it was already too late.
Well, there is a funny counter for Soundtrackers.
DOC, Unknown of DOC's Soundtracker have got numbers like Soundtracker I, II, III and so on. And he also made the soundtrackers v 2.xx.
I think Unknown released 8 different soundtrackers of this I,II,III...VII type.
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:20 pm
by BuZz
zeg: but soundtracker 2.2 documentation makes no mention of 31 instruments ? This isn't mentioned until 2.3 Have you loaded the problem and checked ?
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:22 pm
by zeg
BuZz wrote:zeg: but soundtracker 2.2 documentation makes no mention of 31 instruments ? This isn't mentioned until 2.3 Have you loaded the problem and checked ?
Moment, i will ask Mnemo right now. wait a minute.
Sorry, he is not around right now.
We have to wait.
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:25 pm
by zeg
BuZz wrote:zeg: but soundtracker 2.2 documentation makes no mention of 31 instruments ? This isn't mentioned until 2.3 Have you loaded the problem and checked ?
well, right. But unknown have given the complete, unreleased soundtracker 2.2x (31 sample) version to Mnemotron, and he fixed it up and spread it around as new Soundtracker (2.3)
well, it is not complete. But here is the first step.
http://kestra.exotica.org.uk/series.php?id=125
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:07 am
by Fraggie
Zeg, thanks a million for clearing this up!
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:46 am
by mnemo
Hey all.
Just stumbled upon this discussion and wanted to clarify.
Unknown gave me his Soundtracker source at CeBIT '89 (I think). That version already had the "M.K." mark in it and I saw no reason to change that. In the following weeks and months I added some stuff to it, together with a few friends of mine who made suggestions and one of them created some of the graphics, including the mouse pointer that was used in most versions from then on. The version got released as V2.3.
Some months later (or was it even at the next CeBIT?), I met Unknown again and he said that he had instructed me to not release the Soundtracker he gave me. I
really couldn't remember him having said that, but as you all know, that's history now, the format had already spread. At least then, he didn't seem to be angry or anything, but I still had a bad conscience about this whole affair - from his point of view it must've been an awful abuse of trust. Of course, the change from 15 to 31 instruments is something probably anyone could've made, but there you go.
And all that happened 18 years ago. Sigh.
Cheers,
MnemoTroN
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:34 pm
by zeg
Welcome * Mnemotron * on the exotica world! Thanks for the perfect information.
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:42 pm
by mnemo
You're welcome, zeg. Thanks for your enthusiasm in all things Amiga!