I never owned an Amiga (and hence don't know all the ins and outs of trackers and formats) - I just had the privilege to get to play on them many years ago now. I've been trying to track down the music to Lemmings on and off for a while (I was captivated by that sound track), and have only found all sorts of people's poor MIDI remakes, and some such, and a MOD file with them all in, but with a duff set of instruments (far from the sweet airy feel of the music).
I have finally obtained an exact copy of all the tunes, but it's in what seems to be called custom module format, which looks to be a space-saving system to not necessitate having the instruments included in every file.
Alas, being on a Mac, I can't run DeliPlayer, and Google is not of any help in locating any other Mac player that can load these (I've never seen one that can); Player Pro has no idea either.
Is there any reason why no-one seems to have ever converted it (or, for that matter, Battle Squadron's music) to plain MOD, something that ordinary folk can play with regular software? Has anyone done this?
Cheers
- uilleann
Playing custom modules on a Mac
Re: Playing custom modules on a Mac
Welcome to the boarduilleann wrote: I have finally obtained an exact copy of all the tunes, but it's in what seems to be called custom module format, which looks to be a space-saving system to not necessitate having the instruments included in every file.
The custom format basically is just the music and replayer code all in one. The person who customised Lemmings just made it with separate instruments as the tunes themsevles share the samples. To play an Amiga custom tune on any non Amiga requires 68k emulation (for the replayer instructions) and some emulation of the amiga audio hardware and some other things.
I'm afraid I don't know much about MAC players. I guess you have a couple of options. Either install UAE emulator for the MAC (Im sure it must be already ported ?) or make a port of UADE (which uses uae cpu emulation and emulates the delitracker API so it can handle amiga deltracker players etc)uilleann wrote: Alas, being on a Mac, I can't run DeliPlayer, and Google is not of any help in locating any other Mac player that can load these (I've never seen one that can); Player Pro has no idea either.
Interesting comment. As you said there have been mod conversions of some of the lemmings music but its not identical to the original. As for Battle Squadron, a member of this board, and superb musician Reed recently did a XM version of Battle Squadron, and its very faithfull to the original. Check out this threaduilleann wrote: Is there any reason why no-one seems to have ever converted it (or, for that matter, Battle Squadron's music) to plain MOD, something that ordinary folk can play with regular software? Has anyone done this?
Re: Playing custom modules on a Mac
BuZz:
Welcome to the board :)
Cheers.
To play an Amiga custom tune on any non Amiga requires 68k emulation...
That much is a doddle - 68k emulation is built into my CPU by virtue of the fact that Macs and Amigas shared the same 68k CPUs range. The rest sounds rather more difficult.
Either install UAE emulator for the MAC
I already had, some time ago. Not that it's any good (looked shot full of holes to me), although I did manage to get a game of Amoeba Invaders out of it. I don't know what I'm doing with disc formats anyhow. In either case, I'd be relying on the Mac's sound hardware to let me record the music while it's being played, and that UAE would yield some CPU time for the recording app. I can play Lemmings on the PC if I want to, but it's just that beautiful music I want back - it meant a lot to me then, and is probably played a part in why I ended up with a computer of my own (Lemmings was addictive :-)
or make a port of UADE...
Heh, beyond me right now.
As you said there have been mod conversions of some of the lemmings music but its not identical to the original.
I have one authentic tune conversion, and about a quarter of another. The large MOD with all the tunes in might be from another platform, as I did get a go on the SNES version the other day (under emulation on an XBox) and it resembles the SNES version music.
When I got my first "modern" computer in 1994, a 486 PC (actually, the second, we had to take the first one back) (after running a BBC Micro for three years), I got Lemmings with my SoundBlaster card we purchased for it, and the AdLib music wasn't quite the same somehow... ;)
Check out [the Battle Squadron music]
*sigh* I hate being tied to XM - my trusty player doesn't do XM, and my nice player will lock the machine with certain tunes (perhaps badly-extracted S3Ms/ITs from UMX files) (although I reported the bug).
Anyhow - it's funny what time does to my memory. I spent hours playing Battle Squadron with my friend Chris, and yet, the MIDI version of that tune, which is a different tune altogether, sounds right, which is odd. The distinctive deep section at the beginning of the XM, which I recognise instantly, seems to be the wrong notes, although I recall that I could never memorise the notes properly.
Cheers (and that was a surprisingly fast response!)
- Daniel.
Welcome to the board :)
Cheers.
To play an Amiga custom tune on any non Amiga requires 68k emulation...
That much is a doddle - 68k emulation is built into my CPU by virtue of the fact that Macs and Amigas shared the same 68k CPUs range. The rest sounds rather more difficult.
Either install UAE emulator for the MAC
I already had, some time ago. Not that it's any good (looked shot full of holes to me), although I did manage to get a game of Amoeba Invaders out of it. I don't know what I'm doing with disc formats anyhow. In either case, I'd be relying on the Mac's sound hardware to let me record the music while it's being played, and that UAE would yield some CPU time for the recording app. I can play Lemmings on the PC if I want to, but it's just that beautiful music I want back - it meant a lot to me then, and is probably played a part in why I ended up with a computer of my own (Lemmings was addictive :-)
or make a port of UADE...
Heh, beyond me right now.
As you said there have been mod conversions of some of the lemmings music but its not identical to the original.
I have one authentic tune conversion, and about a quarter of another. The large MOD with all the tunes in might be from another platform, as I did get a go on the SNES version the other day (under emulation on an XBox) and it resembles the SNES version music.
When I got my first "modern" computer in 1994, a 486 PC (actually, the second, we had to take the first one back) (after running a BBC Micro for three years), I got Lemmings with my SoundBlaster card we purchased for it, and the AdLib music wasn't quite the same somehow... ;)
Check out [the Battle Squadron music]
*sigh* I hate being tied to XM - my trusty player doesn't do XM, and my nice player will lock the machine with certain tunes (perhaps badly-extracted S3Ms/ITs from UMX files) (although I reported the bug).
Anyhow - it's funny what time does to my memory. I spent hours playing Battle Squadron with my friend Chris, and yet, the MIDI version of that tune, which is a different tune altogether, sounds right, which is odd. The distinctive deep section at the beginning of the XM, which I recognise instantly, seems to be the wrong notes, although I recall that I could never memorise the notes properly.
Cheers (and that was a surprisingly fast response!)
- Daniel.
mmm....I like that guy's Battle Squadron music =) I think the game had two in-game tunes, actually - and every time you switched from the surface to underground Terrainia and back, it changed tune, or something like that...? It's been a long time...
Apparently, Battle Squadron runs on UAE, not that it helps as we always played with the cheats on (otherwise, it would be suicide).
Thing is, I can hardly believe that I ever knew how to operate UAE - I don't even get a basic Kickstart Amiga disc screen (which I assume I used to get?) - just an empty window. Nowhere in the instructions can I see how to use it - I thought you had to select Insert Disk or something from the menu bar (which does not respond to the mouse)?
I give up for now - sometime, I might download a later copy, and dig out some better instructions from the site or some such. *shakes head*
- Daniel.
Apparently, Battle Squadron runs on UAE, not that it helps as we always played with the cheats on (otherwise, it would be suicide).
Thing is, I can hardly believe that I ever knew how to operate UAE - I don't even get a basic Kickstart Amiga disc screen (which I assume I used to get?) - just an empty window. Nowhere in the instructions can I see how to use it - I thought you had to select Insert Disk or something from the menu bar (which does not respond to the mouse)?
I give up for now - sometime, I might download a later copy, and dig out some better instructions from the site or some such. *shakes head*
- Daniel.
Yeah, it would be nice, I guess. I did get the chance to buy one once, at a computer fair. However, the selection of games didn't include any of the ones I used to play, the Apple green screen was not very enticing (I have no TV to use), and it would only take up more room that I don't have (no idea where it would go).
I'm sure there are loads out there to buy, but I can't really be bothered - I don't think I'd take the effort with it in the end anyhow. I have a BBC Micro way back then, and even though I sold it, I've got lots more since, and one is permanently set up in my room. Doesn't mean that I use it - I don't, probably because the Mac and the Internet has more allure (and there are people online) than a bunch of old games. I think gaming is a social concept for me, which is probably why I don't play games any more for the most part, on any platform.
Of course, if I still had my youthful drive to learn and explore things, instead of learning the Amiga (and AmigaDOS, heh), I'd just reboot the Mac back into Linux and get learning that.
Ah, well, there are plenty of other games whose music I can have. I've been enjoying the Descent music - not as good with QuickTime 4 software synthesisation as on my PC with its OPL3 chip (Apple presumably redid QuickTime to match modern sound card synth chips), but recording sound off my PC properly would necessitate me getting a new sound card with no hiss on the line, or otherwise identifying the source of that hiss, and eradicating it.
If I could be bothered, I'd have a nice collection on my PC of all the Tyrian music synthed by OPL3 instead of the ghastly AWE32 chip used by the guy I know of who did, indeed, record it all to MP3.
Annnyhow, here's a hanky to wipe up all the tears of boredom.
Cya
I'm sure there are loads out there to buy, but I can't really be bothered - I don't think I'd take the effort with it in the end anyhow. I have a BBC Micro way back then, and even though I sold it, I've got lots more since, and one is permanently set up in my room. Doesn't mean that I use it - I don't, probably because the Mac and the Internet has more allure (and there are people online) than a bunch of old games. I think gaming is a social concept for me, which is probably why I don't play games any more for the most part, on any platform.
Of course, if I still had my youthful drive to learn and explore things, instead of learning the Amiga (and AmigaDOS, heh), I'd just reboot the Mac back into Linux and get learning that.
Ah, well, there are plenty of other games whose music I can have. I've been enjoying the Descent music - not as good with QuickTime 4 software synthesisation as on my PC with its OPL3 chip (Apple presumably redid QuickTime to match modern sound card synth chips), but recording sound off my PC properly would necessitate me getting a new sound card with no hiss on the line, or otherwise identifying the source of that hiss, and eradicating it.
If I could be bothered, I'd have a nice collection on my PC of all the Tyrian music synthed by OPL3 instead of the ghastly AWE32 chip used by the guy I know of who did, indeed, record it all to MP3.
Annnyhow, here's a hanky to wipe up all the tears of boredom.
Cya
Many amiga games are free to download now. Space i guess is a problem. I have Amigas piled up everywhere hehe.uilleann wrote:Yeah, it would be nice, I guess. I did get the chance to buy one once, at a computer fair. However, the selection of games didn't include any of the ones I used to play, the Apple green screen was not very enticing (I have no TV to use), and it would only take up more room that I don't have (no idea where it would go).
if you rebooted the mac into linux you could play almost all the tunes from exoticauilleann wrote:I'm sure there are loads out there to buy, but I can't really be bothered - I don't think I'd take the effort with it in the end anyhow. I have a BBC Micro way back then, and even though I sold it, I've got lots more since, and one is permanently set up in my room. Doesn't mean that I use it - I don't, probably because the Mac and the Internet has more allure (and there are people online) than a bunch of old games. I think gaming is a social concept for me, which is probably why I don't play games any more for the most part, on any platform.uilleann wrote: really like BEEBS.. I have 4x BBC B and 2x Masters. Just need a cub monitor now
uilleann wrote:Of course, if I still had my youthful drive to learn and explore things, instead of learning the Amiga (and AmigaDOS, heh), I'd just reboot the Mac back into Linux and get learning that.
BuZz:
Many amiga games are free to download now.
Who knows, the Mac floppy controller might even read Amiga discs, and let me write them out to disc... :P
really like BEEBS..
As do I, especially how open and unrestricted the OS was, and how geeky all BBC books were. These days, all the inner workings of the machine are kept hidden, which, for some people like me, is a bad thing.
After playing on a NES and two Amigas, I decided that I wanted a computer of my own, and I got a BBC B. Despite being most upset at it not being quite as fanciful as an Amiga (the only game it came with was a pretty poor pong implementation, and for the most part, I just had a black screen to look at), I still owe it to that machine that I know a lot of things about computers now. I did eventually get it back, and then resold it to, I trust, a loving home oop north in Bradford.
Still leaves me to wonder - what do bytes 4 to 7 of sector 1 do? I need that book back with all that in...
Now, I need loving homes for the remaining two spare working Bs. The Masters mostly work, but the keyboards are all duff (as one expects).
I do have some cub monitors, though ;)
As for transferring games - my idea was to just emulate them, but Mac users don't get a smooth path there - Horizon is just poor, and MAME won't run as a B for me. PC users get lots of choice, and what seem to be some very impressive emulators. I did try to get my 486 PC to emulate a Beeb, but, due to the weird nature of things, a 486 PC (33, maybe 66 MHz at the time) can't emulate a BBC Micro (so I read, the 6502 is only 1 MHz, not 2 as I always thought) at any kind of reasonable speed, and emulated sound was absolutely awful.
I guess that transferring would make more sense, though.
if you rebooted the mac into linux you could play almost all the tunes from exotica :)
I can't even mount my main partition in Linux! 23 Gb of unaccessible space, with all my music and files in, thanks to the Linux people never implementing HFS+ support. I have a feeling they've done it at last, not that I care now.
- uilleann
Many amiga games are free to download now.
Who knows, the Mac floppy controller might even read Amiga discs, and let me write them out to disc... :P
really like BEEBS..
As do I, especially how open and unrestricted the OS was, and how geeky all BBC books were. These days, all the inner workings of the machine are kept hidden, which, for some people like me, is a bad thing.
After playing on a NES and two Amigas, I decided that I wanted a computer of my own, and I got a BBC B. Despite being most upset at it not being quite as fanciful as an Amiga (the only game it came with was a pretty poor pong implementation, and for the most part, I just had a black screen to look at), I still owe it to that machine that I know a lot of things about computers now. I did eventually get it back, and then resold it to, I trust, a loving home oop north in Bradford.
Still leaves me to wonder - what do bytes 4 to 7 of sector 1 do? I need that book back with all that in...
Now, I need loving homes for the remaining two spare working Bs. The Masters mostly work, but the keyboards are all duff (as one expects).
I do have some cub monitors, though ;)
As for transferring games - my idea was to just emulate them, but Mac users don't get a smooth path there - Horizon is just poor, and MAME won't run as a B for me. PC users get lots of choice, and what seem to be some very impressive emulators. I did try to get my 486 PC to emulate a Beeb, but, due to the weird nature of things, a 486 PC (33, maybe 66 MHz at the time) can't emulate a BBC Micro (so I read, the 6502 is only 1 MHz, not 2 as I always thought) at any kind of reasonable speed, and emulated sound was absolutely awful.
I guess that transferring would make more sense, though.
if you rebooted the mac into linux you could play almost all the tunes from exotica :)
I can't even mount my main partition in Linux! 23 Gb of unaccessible space, with all my music and files in, thanks to the Linux people never implementing HFS+ support. I have a feeling they've done it at last, not that I care now.
- uilleann
Akira:
SoundApp is getting old, alas, although a new version (presumably Carbon) would seem to be on the way, or was as of February at least.
I just checked SoundApp's list of supported MOD formats, and it is pretty large. It does say, though, that "Playback of XM or 669 files is not currently supported by either driver". Another issue is that the Zerius driver that I rely on for most MODs cannot play OktaMed, and this falls back to the SoundTrecker driver, which has severe audio quality issues on this machine. The Zerius driver does not support multiple audio tracks per MOD, or looping.
I am not aware that SoundApp even supports plug-ins at all, but that would be interesting if it did. For now, I tend to prefer MacAmp for MOD, as it offers equalised sound playback which is good for earphones. Bombs from tunes it doesn't like are not so good, though, so I'm loathe to trust it with any tunes extracted from UMX files (games using the Unreal engine), but I've sent a sample problematic S3M to the program's author, for analysis.
I've never seen any indication of a Mac player that supports custom formats.
- uilleann
SoundApp is getting old, alas, although a new version (presumably Carbon) would seem to be on the way, or was as of February at least.
I just checked SoundApp's list of supported MOD formats, and it is pretty large. It does say, though, that "Playback of XM or 669 files is not currently supported by either driver". Another issue is that the Zerius driver that I rely on for most MODs cannot play OktaMed, and this falls back to the SoundTrecker driver, which has severe audio quality issues on this machine. The Zerius driver does not support multiple audio tracks per MOD, or looping.
I am not aware that SoundApp even supports plug-ins at all, but that would be interesting if it did. For now, I tend to prefer MacAmp for MOD, as it offers equalised sound playback which is good for earphones. Bombs from tunes it doesn't like are not so good, though, so I'm loathe to trust it with any tunes extracted from UMX files (games using the Unreal engine), but I've sent a sample problematic S3M to the program's author, for analysis.
I've never seen any indication of a Mac player that supports custom formats.
- uilleann
Hey, my newest mac is a Power Macintosh 8100/80...uilleann wrote:Akira:
SoundApp is getting old, alas, although a new version (presumably Carbon) would seem to be on the way, or was as of February at least.
And the other ones are a Classic Ii and a IIsi! (not counting the IIc and the IIGS Apples here
)I have a StarMax 4000/200 clone which, while faster than yours, is not exactly new. I don't really want to see SoundApp become exclusively Carbon as it won't run that fast on my machine, but it needs to have a Carbon version available to continue its useful life.
Oh, and if it is ever released, it has some nice features coming.
- uilleann
Oh, and if it is ever released, it has some nice features coming.
- uilleann