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zeg
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Post by zeg »

Hello xtc

Protected mods. (Noise-Pro-packer ..)
If the "original" module is still avaliabel, why not to have got those as downloadabel version?
And since we have got most all and every module already somewhere.
No need to have got the "protected" mods on hold.
The filesize of those protected mods can been calculated by using the well known players. And so it is simple to search and find the original tracks.
OH well. If it is wanted. I have stored all the "protected " songs also. We can offer links for both. :)

About the little demo db site.
My dream was, to have got it on the Exotica page. Possible in the future.


bye bye

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Muerto
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Post by Muerto »

zeg wrote: OH well. If it is wanted. I have stored all the "protected " songs also. We can offer links for both. :)
Excelent idea!!! i like it!!!!!
-- you cant escape Muerto --

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BuZz
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Post by BuZz »

If the Original tune is available then sure use it. But might as well keep the rip too. We do that currently on unexotica too.

Zeg: I would love the demo db to live on unexotica too. We are still working on the next version of the site, and then we can do something.

Zeg: Also, I would like to host the latest version of your demo archive too if possible. So we can link off from the demos. I know amigascne.org hosts them (Although im not sure its up to date), but amigascne.org is also not really developed anymore.

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Coma
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Post by Coma »

"No evil conversions here!" was it? Well, that's exactly what the packer formats are... I see no reason to ever store anything else than the real original modules that the musician created. The packer algorithms themselves could be archived for historical reasons, but the coder-mangled modules have no value as long as the real modules exist. Just my €0.02... 8)

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BuZz
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Post by BuZz »

But it's extremely handy for my memory when I have both versions. I can see instantly that the demo used the packed version etc. Times in the past I have reripped demos which I had already ripped, just because I wasn't sure if the mod I had was from the demo or an original mod from another source.

[edit] and I'm against converting BACK to original format for the reasons you illustrate. Its even more chance for data corruption on the way.

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Muerto
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Post by Muerto »

It seems like a delikate matter this packed or not packed, however, I still find it to be the best solution to keep both the unpacked and the packed mod!

And i´m sure we can discuss the matter of packed or not packed modules from now on ontill christmas 2065 (there i´m 90 years old!) and still not agree on somthing!
@Coma you have your reasons to only collect the Protracker ones, and i have my reasons to collect the packed ones, and you can´t tell me not to, and i can´t tell you not to!... (luckily, in that way non of them dissapears og getting lost/deleted somehow)
-- you cant escape Muerto --

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Coma
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Post by Coma »

> till christmas 2065 (there i´m 90 years old!)

Hey, me too! :wink:

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BuZz
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Post by BuZz »

mwahahha. im so young!!! I'll only be 89!!!

well. until june 2065.. where ill be 90.. bah.

zeg
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Post by zeg »

BuZz wrote:mwahahha. im so young!!! I'll only be 89!!!

well. until june 2065.. where ill be 90.. bah.
hehe. Possible than our brain/data is stored on some better device. :)

bye bye

zeg
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Post by zeg »

BuZz wrote:If the Original tune is available then sure use it. But might as well keep the rip too. We do that currently on unexotica too.

Zeg: I would love the demo db to live on unexotica too. We are still working on the next version of the site, and then we can do something.

Yeah! please please :)

Zeg: Also, I would like to host the latest version of your demo archive too if possible. So we can link off from the demos. I know amigascne.org hosts them (Although im not sure its up to date), but amigascne.org is also not really developed anymore.
A dream. Yes. anordby will be happy to have got some more data on his servers.
Yes, we are working on a new updated demo archive. With more demos, intro and disks as ever before.

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XtC
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Post by XtC »

Ey up!

As BuZz mentioned, the demo music archive will contain both mod types, like UnExoticA - and hopefully the actual demo too.

I can't think of any examples, but it's possible that a packed mod played in a demo could sound slightly different to the original mod - then it's a case of which version sounds more 'accurate' or memorable ! :shock:

We'll host both versions! :wink:
Cheers!

mld
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Post by mld »

ok, I wasn't following this thread too closely, so if I write OT or nonsense just bind me to the next tree and throw foul eggs at me and cry "fool! fool!" :D

Anyway... about mod vs. mod_packed versions of a song the following:

Code: Select all

generated by ModInfo v2.1 (Linux) - 2002 (c) Sylvain "Asle" Chipaux
cmdline : "/home/mldoering/Desktop/uade/Modinfo2/modinfo2.Linux.exe cracktro.mod"
----
TITLE : 

WHOLE SAMPLE SIZE ..... : 6934
HEADER SIZE (HEAD+PAT). : 20540
FILE SIZE ............. : 27474
CALCULATED SIZE ....... : 27474


NAME                     SIZE VOL FINE LSTART LSIZE   (Nbr times used)
#Megawatt and the          64  22   0      0     64         (14)
#Sound Legend              64  48   0      0     64         (295)
#from the cracktro         64  64   0      0     64         (7)
#of Kick Off 2 -           34  32   0      4     32         (386)
#Return To Europe          34  64   0      4     32         (3)
#by Abandon                34  48   0      4     32         (417)
#                          34  49   0      4     32         (25)
#Rip by Asle             2984  64   0      0      2         (161)
                         2872  53   0      0      2         (84)
                          750  51   0      0      2         (359)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
[  Converted with  ]        0   0   0      0      2         (0)
[ ProWizard for PC ]        0   0   0      0      2         (0)
[ written by Asle! ]        0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
[ Original Format: ]        0   0   0      0      2         (0)
[  NoisePacker v2  ]        0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0)

[...etc]
The interesting info in upper dump is the LSTART values. It seems to be Loopstart is in bytes rather than in words and LStart+LSize exceeds SIZE which is typical for earlier Soundtracker31 mods. I think the conversion is ok, because asle did the rip.

The file is obviously from a demo in packed format. If (and I have to admit I'm not 100% positive about that) I remember the noisepacker replay correct it handled LSTART in words, so it must have been replayed wrong in the demo. Can anybody check if the demo read beyond samplesizes? The original fmod by the composer could be useful too.

here it's just two bytes but for other songs it might be/is worse... So, it's actually like XTC said, keep both.
At best use the mod directly from the composer if possible, not resaved if possible, not fixed to be played with protracker or other mutant tracker if possible...

mld/uade team

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XtC
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Post by XtC »

Ey up!

Code: Select all

[  Converted with  ]        0   0   0      0      2         (0) 
[ ProWizard for PC ]        0   0   0      0      2         (0) 
[ written by Asle! ]        0   0   0      0      2         (0) 
                            0   0   0      0      2         (0) 
[ Original Format: ]        0   0   0      0      2         (0) 
[  NoisePacker v2  ]        0   0   0      0      2         (0) 
Aaargh! A conversion! :shock: :wink:

Code: Select all

#Rip by Asle             2984  64   0      0      2         (161) 
Aaargh! Rip credits!! :wink:
Cheers!

asle
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Post by asle »

XtC wrote: Aaargh! A conversion! :shock: :wink:

Code: Select all

#Rip by Asle             2984  64   0      0      2         (161) 
Aaargh! Rip credits!! :wink:
yeah, well ... how did you get hold of this one Michael ?. Anyway, as muerto said, the debate is endless. If my vote has some weight, then I say that the original is far better than anything else considering the fact that the earlier packers like NP2 were bugged. How many musicians did we interview who were rather unhappy by the way their music was destroyed in this or that demo. On another hand, if the purists must win, then storing a NP2 file isn't possible since there's no replay in the market. You see, Deli* for example converts it back with Gryzor's depacker. Now, who has the replay of NP2, usable and all ?. Ok, then shall we do customs for all of these ?. I don't have the skills nor the time.
As for the example given by Michael, I'm afraid I've never found the original music. But I guess that, while waiting for someone to find it, the depacked version, here, helps understanding where the file comes from.
And, yes, I put my name in the rips I've made public. Just so that you know who to blame if something's wrong ;). Seriously, it's only a way to have a little information about the file, for too often do they get spread alone and, in the end, end up somewhere, out of context.
Ok, I know, Crown and Curt Cool thought important to convert the ripped STK I provided to them to PTK ... all of which will be trashed, of course. It's just a plain example of people not knowing what they do. I've even found on AMP some STK in which I wrote 'remove my name if you convert this file back to PTK' on some converted files !. Yeah ... ah well. Some job for me there, to be sure, but it'll be done all right.

msg to Crown : JB, rigolo des iles en short !.

Regards,
Sylvain "Asle" Chipaux

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BuZz
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Post by BuZz »

If my vote has some weight, then I say that the original is far better than anything else considering the fact that the earlier packers like NP2 were bugged.
Noone has said that the original is not better though !?!

The only thing I have said is I like to keep the rips along with the originals.

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